I consider mysellf relatively progressive and find much of what you propose pretty realistic. I don't wish to offend but my observation that a good deal of the labor/management relationship you articulate is only a small degree different than what Democratic Socialists have been advocating for some time now, i.e. there is enough common g…
I consider mysellf relatively progressive and find much of what you propose pretty realistic. I don't wish to offend but my observation that a good deal of the labor/management relationship you articulate is only a small degree different than what Democratic Socialists have been advocating for some time now, i.e. there is enough common ground to produce meaningful discussions. As to the article, could there be fertile ground for a middle party as a realignment? Lastly, Senators Vance, Hawley and Rubio could gain more trust by shucking the blind allegence to Trump. Hawley and Rubio had an opportunity to take a stand for decency and didn't. So rebuking those of us who mistrust them is a bit unfair. They need to earn it. Liz Cheney had guts.
Seems like this comment thread has attracted a few left of center folks that are interested in the potential realignment, and I think it would be great if that continues on Oren's substack. But as a gentle comment, I think it's going to be very important for people to give a great deal of grace to folks on the "other side" if any kind of real left/right pro worker coalition can be built.
When it comes to Trump loyalty, I really liked Oren's response to Jon Stewart comparing that to team blue refusing to acknowledge reality about Biden's condition. It's all well and good to prefer that our political leaders are more independent, but that's not the situation we have now, and if you make that a deal-breaker it's going to be pretty hard to build a cross party coalition.
That being said, I'm fine with criticizing Vance's refusal to acknowledge that Trump lost the 2020 election - I fundamentally don't get that from a strategic or practical perspective. Seems like there are pretty easy ways to answer that question in a way that lets you say that bias against Trump had an impact on the election without giving the Harris campaign an easy headline to run against.
So I'm happy to admit that situation is a negative for Vance, but to me it is dwarfed by the importance of pushing back against corporatism and the establishment, so I'm willing to give him grace. And honestly, your last comment about Liz Cheney scares me - I don't think she has an honorable bone in her body, and even if you agree with her criticisms of Trump, they're only driven by her own self interest and desire to protect the military-industrial complex. There are way better anti-Trump voices to elevate if we're serious about this realignment.
Just a quick reminder that Don and JD ARE the establishment. They dominate the R party. This is Don's third nomination, the former R establishment has either left the party or remains in a rump minority. As for corporatism, is that what Don meant with his $1 billion shakedown of the oil execs? More fundamentally, I can't "give him grace" for striking at the core of our republic. There is nothing more important to our system of government than faith in the electoral system, a faith that's a prerequisite to the peaceful transfer of power. Upholding one's oath comes first, it's far more important than debating trade policy or marginal tax rates. Don openly violated his oath by inciting an armed insurrection, leading to the first non-peaceful transfer of power in our nation's history. It's the worst act ever committed by a US president. JD parrots the lie even today. On video. JD also openly tells us, on video, that he would not have done what Mike Pence did-fulfill his constitutional duty to certify the election. Case closed. JD's gaslighting of the working class is just a little sweetener to drive home what a disgraceful human he is. It's hard to think of anything lower than gaslighting someone who literally just lost everything in a natural disaster. Until the "new" right exhibits some character and decency, educated voters will continue to flee.
Liz Cheney continued to support Trump in 2016 even after the Access Hollywood tape came out and caused a lot of establishment Republicans to unendorse him. She supported him again in 2020. I don't think she would have done that if she just wanted to protect the military-industrial complex.
I consider mysellf relatively progressive and find much of what you propose pretty realistic. I don't wish to offend but my observation that a good deal of the labor/management relationship you articulate is only a small degree different than what Democratic Socialists have been advocating for some time now, i.e. there is enough common ground to produce meaningful discussions. As to the article, could there be fertile ground for a middle party as a realignment? Lastly, Senators Vance, Hawley and Rubio could gain more trust by shucking the blind allegence to Trump. Hawley and Rubio had an opportunity to take a stand for decency and didn't. So rebuking those of us who mistrust them is a bit unfair. They need to earn it. Liz Cheney had guts.
Seems like this comment thread has attracted a few left of center folks that are interested in the potential realignment, and I think it would be great if that continues on Oren's substack. But as a gentle comment, I think it's going to be very important for people to give a great deal of grace to folks on the "other side" if any kind of real left/right pro worker coalition can be built.
When it comes to Trump loyalty, I really liked Oren's response to Jon Stewart comparing that to team blue refusing to acknowledge reality about Biden's condition. It's all well and good to prefer that our political leaders are more independent, but that's not the situation we have now, and if you make that a deal-breaker it's going to be pretty hard to build a cross party coalition.
That being said, I'm fine with criticizing Vance's refusal to acknowledge that Trump lost the 2020 election - I fundamentally don't get that from a strategic or practical perspective. Seems like there are pretty easy ways to answer that question in a way that lets you say that bias against Trump had an impact on the election without giving the Harris campaign an easy headline to run against.
So I'm happy to admit that situation is a negative for Vance, but to me it is dwarfed by the importance of pushing back against corporatism and the establishment, so I'm willing to give him grace. And honestly, your last comment about Liz Cheney scares me - I don't think she has an honorable bone in her body, and even if you agree with her criticisms of Trump, they're only driven by her own self interest and desire to protect the military-industrial complex. There are way better anti-Trump voices to elevate if we're serious about this realignment.
Just a quick reminder that Don and JD ARE the establishment. They dominate the R party. This is Don's third nomination, the former R establishment has either left the party or remains in a rump minority. As for corporatism, is that what Don meant with his $1 billion shakedown of the oil execs? More fundamentally, I can't "give him grace" for striking at the core of our republic. There is nothing more important to our system of government than faith in the electoral system, a faith that's a prerequisite to the peaceful transfer of power. Upholding one's oath comes first, it's far more important than debating trade policy or marginal tax rates. Don openly violated his oath by inciting an armed insurrection, leading to the first non-peaceful transfer of power in our nation's history. It's the worst act ever committed by a US president. JD parrots the lie even today. On video. JD also openly tells us, on video, that he would not have done what Mike Pence did-fulfill his constitutional duty to certify the election. Case closed. JD's gaslighting of the working class is just a little sweetener to drive home what a disgraceful human he is. It's hard to think of anything lower than gaslighting someone who literally just lost everything in a natural disaster. Until the "new" right exhibits some character and decency, educated voters will continue to flee.
Liz Cheney continued to support Trump in 2016 even after the Access Hollywood tape came out and caused a lot of establishment Republicans to unendorse him. She supported him again in 2020. I don't think she would have done that if she just wanted to protect the military-industrial complex.