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Kim Stiens's avatar

It is strange to me that you proffer this "because you were once a kid, you have a moral obligation to have kids" model as being collectivist and focused on our obligations to society, in contrast with the individualist tendencies of libertariansim (explicitly individualist) and... some wide gesture at the left, as though socialism isn't explicitly collectivist (and as though that's not something that conservatives seem to consistently dislike about it).

Along those same lines, you insist that this debt - the debt of our birth - must be repaid, because "(t)hat we did not choose this debt is of no moral import—it is inherent to our existence." You spare a few words to denounce the "individualism" of wokism - can't be a conservative without complaining about the Wokes - but this is the foundation of the most surface objections to "wokism" - the idea that we have obligations to others in our society, some of which stem from debts that we owe that we had no hand in creating, no choice in incurring.

It seems strange to suggest that the fact that I have ancestors creates a (in your words, self-evident) social obligation to have children, but the fact that black people were literally enslaved for hundreds of years does not create any kind of social obligation in those who live today. I'm not saying that's your position, just that what you're positing here seems a pretty hard sell to a generation of conservatives that resent socialism because using tax money to support the poor is theft, who bristle at even the lightest implication that they owe anything to anyone.

I mean, I guess what you posit allows for "I don't owe anyone anything except for my immediate family, to whom I owe only continued existence" but I can't see that having any of the positive social impact you seem to think it would have.

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Chris's avatar

Fisher Ames IV Sep. 15

It's unclear, to put it mildly, why we are talking about a "conservative moral vision" when preferred leaders are devoid of such a vision. Placing our nihil obstat on leaders who fail to act in a virtuous way implies a disconnection between leaders and the larger society. Just this week we witnessed outlandish stories of Haitians eating pets that were characterized by the Republican governor of Ohio as arising from "the garbage on the Internet." Our founders may have disagreed on many matters, but none of them believed that we could have a virtuous society if our leaders were amoral. "Castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful" is unlikely to lead to anything worthwhile.

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